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Once Again, the Crap hits the Fan
*sigh* I’m really tired of this and if you’re tired of the same old rants from me about people essentially stealing my hard work, then this is one post you can skip… but I would greatly appreciate your time to read this and help spread it around.
Most of you out there know how much effort I have been putting into digging up content for the past year or so. As a journalist, it’s a double-edged sword when some of your research methods are both fruitful and able to be implemented by any old Joe Schmoe out there. As I just posted in a comment elsewhere, I’m not some egomaniacal gloryhound; I just want credit where credit is due.
This post was prompted by me receiving several hate e-mails from readers of the eightforums website. “You stole his content,” one person said. “You’re a fraud with a no-name website” another said. Well, let’s let the truth be known about who takes from who, shall we? And, yes, everything I’m about to post will be accompanied with screenshots so that certain people can’t do damage control to try and save face.
First off, I was emailed by the owner of eightforums yesterday. He was all cool and collective in his introduction, just wanting to know if I wanted to talk on the phone or via messenger sometime. Now, I’m thinking this guy is a nice guy, so I go read his blog that he linked. The first thing I see is the following blog post:
That looks fine and dandy, right? Nice little asterisk there linking to my site here and what not… well, that didn’t sit too well with me considering that whole blog entry was written in a first-person perspective, yet it contained a really random reference to the article HERE on Microsoft Kitchen; NOT on UX Evangelist where I posted it FIRST that very same day! Just to make sure my hunch was correct, I decided to compare that blog entry of his to Google’s cache of it and boy was I right:
Isn’t it miraculous that just before he emailed me (thus ensuring I would then see his site since I obviously hadn’t seen it before), he put a nice link up on that one blog entry? Oh, and it would have also helped his credibility if he updated his forum where he mirrored his original blog post:
And just in case he happens to try to add it there before anyone sees that, Google’s got it cached from as recently as the first of this month with no link:
Nice try, Mike. I’m sure you’re a nice guy and all, but now you know why I didn’t email you back. Trying to corner the Windows 8 market by using dishonest journalistic methods is a surefire way to start us off on the very wrong foot. I’m used to this and I’ve been around this block a few times, so now I’m waiting for the, “you’re wrong” followed by some absurd, “proof” I’m going to have to refute…
Oh, and now that I’ve got that one out of the way, on to another site who has been exercising douchebaggery. Ironically, the way to get there is to add a simple, “the” to good old Mike’s site: theeightforums.com
I stumbled upon their site one day a couple of weeks ago and noticed one of their users (their username is tw33k) ripping my posts word-for-word without even so much as a link. Trying to be diplomatic about the whole thing, I signed up on their forum and created a post kindly mentioning that a user had posted such information. I also linked to those posts – as well as others, so that the folks of that community interested in Windows 8 could have a look and see. Well, guess what happened to that post a number of days after I posted it? It got deleted while the guy who was ripping off my content remains. WHAT THE HELL?
You can see the post cached in Google HERE and just the same, you can see that my username on their forum is credited with 1 post – yet, if you search for my posts, there are none to be found (nevermind if you go look on the page where my post was found, it’s not there).
Results when Searching for my Posts:
Google Cache Screen Shot:
My Post Missing in the Forum:
My Original Post:
Listen. I couldn’t care less about the traffic their sites may get but I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to sit here after putting in the time and energy to find this information and post it while sites like that STEAL THE WORK and try to take the credit!!! It makes me SO ANGRY that these people have absolutely no ethics or couth! I mean, you’d think I was asking for a million dollars or something by simply asking for credit where credit is due. That’s just the way this stuff is supposed to work. I’m sick and f’n tired of brainstorming ideas like scouring LinkedIn for profiles and tirelessly searching the internet to find content that people just so casually rip off! I wish I believed in karma, but I don’t. Because of that, I will NEVER make any bones about it to call these people out. I’ve tried being diplomatic and I’ve tried being Mr. Nice Guy, but that doesn’t cut it. Pretty soon, I’m going to cut the chit-chat and start going for the jugular of the websites who continue to operate under these circumstances.
I may have been born at night but it wasn’t last night. And if you thought I put a lot of effort into gathering the references for this post, just imagine all the effort I put into gathering the content I post on this site. Now, most of this could be alleviated with an apology, but people are about as happy to admit they’re wrong as they are about getting shot in the foot, i.e., not very. Here’s to the possibility of it ending just that simply.
Thanks for reading and I hope you never have to deal with crap like this. Oh, and apologies for any grammatical errors. I’m tired and exhausted from having to continually deal with this issue.
-Stephen
http://msftkitchen.com
I gave you your linkback as reference as an update, just like you did to me with your update a week late. sorry you got pissed for coming in late on windows 8 news bud, tried to be friends. welcome to the internet
~Mike
http://blog.eightforums.com
Attacking both eightforums and theeightforums at the same time? man you really are going insane, I miss the old site already.
Hi Stephen,
I can understand your frustration.
If I may offer a suggestion, I would tell you to post an explicit copyright notice on the footer of the site. Something to the effect of say: “All content posted on this site are protected under Creative Commons Attribution License” (or whatever).
Then if anybody rips your content off, look up the service provider hosting the site and ask them to take the site down for copyright infringement. As people who like sharing their knowledge none of us like having to go to such extents. But, punks like these make it a necessity.
@sameera
how do we know its not stephen stealing all the information? seriously, in all his research he happen to find linkedin before theeightforums posted it a week eariler?
Mike: lol. How kind of you to update that post just before you emailed me. I linked your site not even 20-30 minutes after posting the post; immediately giving credit where credit was due since I had no idea of your post until then, unlike you, who seems to think you’ve done me a favor linking me 2 weeks later.
And coming in late on Windows 8 news? lol. Man, you haven’t been in this community very long, have you? I’ve been keeping up on Windows 8 and posting about it since 2007, “bud.” In case you weren’t aware yet, my site was UX Evangelist (which now forwards here, if you notice).
November 5, 2007: http://74.125.113.132/search?q.....#038;gl=us
And you can just continue reading all the Windows 8 exclusives I’ve posted since then: http://www.google.com/search?h.....=&aqi=
I’ve been doing this LONG before you ever dreamed of covering Windows. I’m all for you succeeding with your venture, but not pulling crap like you did and being unapologetic about it.
Oh, and by the way… welcome to the internet.
@zigzag3143: The reason I didn’t see his post a week ago is due to the very same reason no one else seemed to: his site has been unknown up until this point. The information in question isn’t the 128-bit post. You can go back and look at Google to see all the research I did and information I posted from LinkedIn long before anyone else did. I don’t check it every day; not even every week, but when I checked it yesterday morning, I saw Robert’s profile and made my post. I’m a reputable journalist and everyone from Long Zheng to Mary Jo Foley to Rafael Rivera to Paul Thurrott to Ed Bott can attest to that and that’s saying something.
-Stephen
UXEvangelist WTF! Both these sites had the information long before you did! and those screenshots are so shopped, its laughable. When has anyone taken you serious?
Maxik: Photoshopped? Why not try clicking the links I provided with every single one of them, then? lol. You not having done that to verify those screen shots is what’s laughable! All anyone has to do is look at the dates of my posts via Google’s cache (which doesn’t lie or photoshop) and compare them to those others sites and voila! Point proven. Unfortunately, most people are just too lazy to care or go that far in-depth to see that I’ve proven my point.
-Stephen
dudes, you need to stop crying and hug each others
I meant to give you the source on theeightforums, I think someone removed the url
-tw33k
This is how they are, they look at your blog, the think you are a small guy, then they will recreate the content claiming its theirs.
It’s happen to me many times.
@8Dreams: lol. While I can appreciate that, the issue here is the principle of the matter. I’d love nothing more than to just get along with everyone but the problem is that where I would absolutely link to both of these sites if they had an exclusive, when I try to set the record straight, my stuff either gets deleted while the plagarized crap is left to stay, or people try to save face and make me look like the bad guy somehow. It never ceases to amaze and disturb me.
-Stephen
aren’t all these site small guys? who’s the big guy? I enjoy sevenforums.com , they seem like a nice group of people why attack them?
@tw33k: So which one is it? You meant to source me, but didn’t for some reason, or you did source me but someone removed the URL? Very confusing, what you’ve written there. lol. In the event that you did link and someone removed the URL, that really detracts even more from the credibility of your site… especially since others who have linked properly to sources out there seem to have their URLs intact still on your site…
@Manmohanjit: I’ve dealt with this issue so many times, it’s ridiculous. And it’s amazing how many excuses you’ll hear of people either attempting to justify themselves or make you out to somehow be the liar or the bad guy. To someone who has worked so hard to fish out original content and post it, it’s a real slap in the face.
-Stephen
well, considering your post on theeightforums was deleted, stephen. I’m guessing it was the admins behind it all.
@garysgold: It doesn’t matter who the, “small guys” are. It’s the principal of it all. I was one of the, “small guys” at one point and I damn sure never copied anyone’s work in any way, shape or form. I’ve made it a consistent point since 2007 (and well before then, too, when I posted my information on various forums prior to starting my own) to not rehash, borrow, aggregate, etc. other peoples’ content. It’s fine to rehash news, but I would hope my point in this post was clear, regardless of who the, “small guys” happen to be.
-Stephen
I understand, did you ever contact them first before going all apeshit?
@garysgold: Right. And they’re the ones I’m after. They are representative of their site through their actions. Again, it’s just about the principal of it. I’m big on ethics when it comes to stuff like this. I suppose it has to do with the fact that I understand how much dedication and hard work it takes to keep up an original site that doesn’t rehash old content, you know?
EDIT: No, I didn’t contact them because I had no reason to. Their actions were made clear and if they had anything to say about it, they could have contacted me via email or PM, which they did not. There was no good reason to nix my content while allowing what was being plagarized to remain as such.
-Stephen
I think it was honest mistakes: breakings news is hard to do on rumors. Enough of this!
~Bare Foot Kid
Bare Foot Kid: While I appreciate your optimism with the issue, I’m not as convinced of these actions being, “honest mistakes.” I’ll give tw33k the benefit of the doubt, but if my links were deleted for some reason, then my post was deleted a week after I posted it… what could be an honest mistake at that point? Not much…
-Stephen
I didn’t edit my post? I think you are out of line.
@garysgold: My fault. I read the comment out-of-place. Editing accordingly.
-Stephen
thank you
I thought you were attacking me now like your attacking these other sites.
garysgold: Absolutely. I wasn’t attacking you at all. I understand I’m coming off seemingly a bit too overly passionate, but this is an issue that many journalists such as myself have to deal with and it’s one of the most frustrating things ever. My friend Long Zheng is just today dealing with this same issue, and the last time I dealt with it, he was also ironically dealing with it. I value my readers and I appreciate those who keep up with my site. What I do not appreciate or tolerate is the content I’ve posted about. I go to pretty well-informed lengths to make sure I’ve solidified a case before posting something like this, so though it may seem like I’m randomly flying off the handle, nothing could be further from the truth.
-Stephen
I say you deleted the post, calm down & attempt to talk with them. you even said they are probably nice people. be the better man
who needs soaps when everyone has you two
shut it bare foot kid
garysgold: Perhaps in due time but not at the moment as I’m going to sleep. If there’s anything I don’t feel like being right now, it’s, “the better man.” I’m quite content being whatever is in the eye of the beholder right now, if I’m being honest. If nothing else, they should both be enjoying some traffic come tomorrow off of this post. There’s nothing like a bit of controversy to kick-start your site! Again, I’m all for either of these folks bringing exclusives out of their own hard work and dedication and I will still gladly link to them if the content is worth repeating but in the mean time, I believe in my heart of hearts that there is a point to be made here and I hope I’m making it – even if it somehow paints me in a negative light with select viewers to do as such.
I do appreciate your diplomatic suggestion, though. Don’t think I wouldn’t like to just remove it and everything be happy-go-lucky. This stuff would all be much easier if everyone played fair. I always was the kid with a mean arm who would unwaiveringly make the kids in dodgeball pay for intentionally hitting me where they weren’t supposed to. lol.
-Stephen
I understand, but try to get to know them. work together not against each other.
good night!
@garysgold: I’m sure amends will be made in due time – and if they are, I hope this isn’t a situation to have to revisit. Thanks for your comments. Take care.
-Stephen
Wow. I’ve appreciated the up to date coverage on everything in Windows development that has come from this website (and previously UX Evangelist).
No one else has ever come close to staying as transparent and providing valid sources (where possible).
I’m siding with Stephen on this one.
Great work Stephen and it really sucks that people have to be so low in their reactions. I’ve never heard of those sites that ripped you off, and now I won’t even bother to look into them.
Stephen. I know you have always worked hard on your research and journalism. You do deserve appreciation for what you bring to the table. I think its terrible that things like this happen. Internet content is constantly being replicated throughout several sites. I notice BetaNews, NeoWin, WinBeta, Bink, and KezNews all generally end up having the same article posted when its something that everyone truely values. I wouldn’t feed into any negativity, just keep doing what you have always been doing, providing really good insightful and detailed information. You know what I mean.. F**K the haters
I have been checking your site for years now. i was a big fan of UX Evangelist.
Dont let these fools bother you. its very clear if the post was deleted it wasnt a mistake.
ofcoz there is always ppl out there try to be famous been a copycat. so like sameera said put a line on the bottom and then deal with it as it comes. coz i am sure this is not the first time and surely wont be da last…
anyway keep up the good work, looking forward to your next post.
Matt: Thanks a lot for posting that; I really appreciate it. I’m sure one of the two of those sites will produce something fruitful one of these days, but hopefully now, it won’t be under the guise of my content, you know?
netsendjoe: Thanks, man. And, yeah… those sites you listed (amongst a few others) are the goal. They all have their format and they do it well. That’s part of the reason I don’t consider them to be competition; they help the process when an article of mine lands on their pages and I’m definitely appreciative of it. Sometimes, negativity like this does indeed get the better of me… and though I wish it didn’t, I have absolutely no regrets hashing it out with these folks in the public domain. Then again, I’ve never really had a problem with that and I would say because of that, these people don’t know me so well, do they?
Shoot me an email sometime so we can catch up! I’m not on any of the social networking sites any longer (with the exception of Twitter).
Nilantha: Thanks a lot for your comment. It’s always nice to hear from someone who has been keeping up with my site since the early days. =) I suppose a line on the bottom is necessary at this point and I will indeed deal with it has it comes. I’m tired of writing about these instances and I’m sure my readers are tired of reading about it, so henceforth, I won’t be allowing people even so much as a chance to refute what I post about them here. I’ll just go straight for knockin’ skulls.
Sameera: Apologies for not responding to your comment sooner. Thanks a lot for the suggestion and as I said above to Nilantha, it appears that I will indeed have to go about doing that. Would it all be so much nicer if everyone could just get along and stay within a certain ethical standard?
I know it sounds cheesy but the positive reinforcement from you folks does help, so, thanks for taking the time to comment. =)
-Stephen
damn Stephen,
i am sure this will be sumthin that you have to deal with every few months..unfortunately
fight the power brother!
peas
cityboy
Stephen, have your rant, you’ve earned it. Ultimately, however, don’t let these jerks get you too riled up.
I’ve been reading your stuff since the beginning and I’ve never seen anything from you that indicates you don’t have the highest ethical standards.
This should be something of a badge of honor for you. A lot of times in the few days after a story by Mary Jo Foley or Long Zheng you will see a dozen rebroadcasts of it all over the net. Now you’ve joined that exclusive club of people who matter.
@dj_cityboy: Yeah, it does seem as though this is going to be something I have to deal with every so often. I’m sure it has been happening a lot more throughout the years than I’ve noticed, but now that I have, I’m going to start doing something about it!
@kettch: Thanks for the kind words. I can understand why people would want to rip-off the content, but what trips me out more than anything is when they try to deny it and come up with these lame-ass excuses while trying to somehow paint it in a light that I’m the a-hole in all of this! lol. It never ceases to amaze me, man. Regardless, I appreciate your readership and am happy to know that my content has been interesting enough to keep you as a reader all this time! I hope to get to the point one day where most people will recognize my stories if they’re posted elsewhere and I won’t have to worry about this stuff. Maybe one day. =)
-Stephen
I know you’re upset, but posting this was funny just because it’s essentually a bitch bitching about bitching. Indeed welcome to the internet.
Reguardless… I think anyone could have just assumed that windows 8 or 9 might have 128bit capability, its the next step after 64-bit!
@hmm: This post wasn’t meant to be funny nor is it what you have perceived it to be. That’s alright that the message hasn’t translated for you, because I certainly don’t expect my quarrels to become everyone else’s personal convictions. The point of this post was to publicly out two websites who are trying to monopolize a certain topic (which there is nothing wrong with) and along the way, using content I posted without linking back to me and making it look like they’re the originators of said content (which there is absolutely something wrong with). Try having it happen to you time-and-time again, then come back here and let me know how you feel.
As far as assuming Windows 8 or 9 might have 128-bit capabilities, while that may logically appeal to you due to it being the step after 64-bit, the fact of the matter is that the industry as a whole isn’t prepared for 128-bit – nor will they be for years to come. 128-bit kernel support as soon as Windows 8 is absolutely more of a revelation than a logical assumption.
-Stephen